Comments on: Is children’s art “Art”? http://karlzipser.com/2006/12/is-childrens-art-art.html on art and perception Tue, 07 Apr 2009 18:01:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Rex Crockett http://karlzipser.com/2006/12/is-childrens-art-art.html/comment-page-1#comment-762 Rex Crockett Tue, 02 Jan 2007 17:52:27 +0000 http://karlzipser.com/2006/12/is-childrens-art-art.html#comment-762 <i>You can’t measure the value of an art scene just in terms of the market size-- you just can’t.</i> True, Arthur. One has to look at influence on other artists and art in general. So my comment stands. I know you love New York, Arthur. Good. I don't respect people who are unfaithful or disloyal to their roots. If I lived there, I would be thinking, "Hmm. How can we restore the dream?" But reading the rags out of The City, I'm always struck by their smug insularity and disconnection from the rest of the world. You can’t measure the value of an art scene just in terms of the market size– you just can’t.

True, Arthur. One has to look at influence on other artists and art in general. So my comment stands.

I know you love New York, Arthur. Good. I don’t respect people who are unfaithful or disloyal to their roots. If I lived there, I would be thinking, “Hmm. How can we restore the dream?”

But reading the rags out of The City, I’m always struck by their smug insularity and disconnection from the rest of the world.

]]> By: David http://karlzipser.com/2006/12/is-childrens-art-art.html/comment-page-1#comment-761 David Tue, 02 Jan 2007 17:48:23 +0000 http://karlzipser.com/2006/12/is-childrens-art-art.html#comment-761 As soon as I die, I'm going to start selling into the spike. Maybe I'll make enough to start my next life off w/ some cash. Of course if I come back as a dog I won't need much. As soon as I die, I’m going to start selling into the spike. Maybe I’ll make enough to start my next life off w/ some cash. Of course if I come back as a dog I won’t need much.

]]> By: Rex Crockett http://karlzipser.com/2006/12/is-childrens-art-art.html/comment-page-1#comment-760 Rex Crockett Tue, 02 Jan 2007 17:41:16 +0000 http://karlzipser.com/2006/12/is-childrens-art-art.html#comment-760 Steve, If you follow prices closely, you'll see that when artist kicks, there's an immediate spike in the price followed by a crash to a level about ten percent more that when he or she was alive. The prices then continue to increase at just about the same rate as when the artist was alive. What does that tell you? It tells you that because people <i>believe</i> that dead artist's work is more valuable, they buy. But it's a <i>sellers</i> market, NOT a buyers market. Suckers. The final vengeance of the artist. Steve,

If you follow prices closely, you’ll see that when artist kicks, there’s an immediate spike in the price followed by a crash to a level about ten percent more that when he or she was alive. The prices then continue to increase at just about the same rate as when the artist was alive.

What does that tell you? It tells you that because people believe that dead artist’s work is more valuable, they buy. But it’s a sellers market, NOT a buyers market.

Suckers. The final vengeance of the artist.

]]> By: Arthur Whitman http://karlzipser.com/2006/12/is-childrens-art-art.html/comment-page-1#comment-759 Arthur Whitman Tue, 02 Jan 2007 17:37:28 +0000 http://karlzipser.com/2006/12/is-childrens-art-art.html#comment-759 You can't measure the value of an art scene just in terms of the market size-you just can't. Perhaps NYC really "is a a has been". But I'd still take it any day over Sante Fe or probably anywhere else, thanks. And what exactly is the false impression thats being created. I don't see people pretending that things are perfect. Sure, young people get exploited economically by old people. That happens everywhere people are making money. You can’t measure the value of an art scene just in terms of the market size-you just can’t. Perhaps NYC really “is a a has been”. But I’d still take it any day over Sante Fe or probably anywhere else, thanks. And what exactly is the false impression thats being created. I don’t see people pretending that things are perfect. Sure, young people get exploited economically by old people. That happens everywhere people are making money.

]]> By: Steve Durbin http://karlzipser.com/2006/12/is-childrens-art-art.html/comment-page-1#comment-758 Steve Durbin Tue, 02 Jan 2007 17:32:49 +0000 http://karlzipser.com/2006/12/is-childrens-art-art.html#comment-758 I thought nothing increased prices like being dead. By that logic, if an artist's work is selling at all, you're better off buying the work of some geezer about to kick the bucket. I thought nothing increased prices like being dead. By that logic, if an artist’s work is selling at all, you’re better off buying the work of some geezer about to kick the bucket.

]]> By: Rex Crockett http://karlzipser.com/2006/12/is-childrens-art-art.html/comment-page-1#comment-757 Rex Crockett Tue, 02 Jan 2007 17:25:57 +0000 http://karlzipser.com/2006/12/is-childrens-art-art.html#comment-757 Yes. More by far. I heard that from one gallery owner, and then I started asking others. We're talking actual dollars spent on art, but that does not count the New York auction houses, just the galleries. New York is a has been. It happened over thirty years ago. it's just that there are a bunch of old farts who write the big city reviews, and they create, intentionally, false impressions because that's where their bread is buttered. Yes. More by far. I heard that from one gallery owner, and then I started asking others. We’re talking actual dollars spent on art, but that does not count the New York auction houses, just the galleries.

New York is a has been. It happened over thirty years ago. it’s just that there are a bunch of old farts who write the big city reviews, and they create, intentionally, false impressions because that’s where their bread is buttered.

]]> By: David http://karlzipser.com/2006/12/is-childrens-art-art.html/comment-page-1#comment-756 David Tue, 02 Jan 2007 17:14:27 +0000 http://karlzipser.com/2006/12/is-childrens-art-art.html#comment-756 PS - Rex, when you say that Santa Fe Taos outsells NY, what do you mean by that? Are you really saying there's more work sold there than in NYC? PS – Rex, when you say that Santa Fe Taos outsells NY, what do you mean by that? Are you really saying there’s more work sold there than in NYC?

]]> By: David http://karlzipser.com/2006/12/is-childrens-art-art.html/comment-page-1#comment-755 David Tue, 02 Jan 2007 17:01:43 +0000 http://karlzipser.com/2006/12/is-childrens-art-art.html#comment-755 Okay, I'm moving to Taos. Can't say I think much of the artwork I see in Carmel. Though we were just up there a few days ago, and if you ignore the galleries it's a wonderful town :) If you're ever there, I highly recommend staying at the Carmel Mission Ranch (Clint Eastwood's place). Splurge and get a room looking out over the meadow. It's worth it. Okay, I’m moving to Taos.

Can’t say I think much of the artwork I see in Carmel. Though we were just up there a few days ago, and if you ignore the galleries it’s a wonderful town :)

If you’re ever there, I highly recommend staying at the Carmel Mission Ranch (Clint Eastwood’s place). Splurge and get a room looking out over the meadow. It’s worth it.

]]> By: Rex Crockett http://karlzipser.com/2006/12/is-childrens-art-art.html/comment-page-1#comment-754 Rex Crockett Tue, 02 Jan 2007 16:55:05 +0000 http://karlzipser.com/2006/12/is-childrens-art-art.html#comment-754 <i>From what I've heard of recent trends in the art world, you have to be under 30.</i> Well, I read that whole bit on Winkleman's site. First, his commenters really need to get out more. The New York "emerging artist" scene does not represent anything but a bunch of poofs promoting their latest boy toys. The average age of artists in the Santa Fe Taos area (which out sells the New York gallery scene) is over 50. This holds true in the Mendocino area, Monterrey Carmel, Miami, Seattle... Wake up. Art is an old person's game. Always has been. Those kids in the big city are getting played and discarded. From what I’ve heard of recent trends in the art world, you have to be under 30.

Well, I read that whole bit on Winkleman’s site. First, his commenters really need to get out more. The New York “emerging artist” scene does not represent anything but a bunch of poofs promoting their latest boy toys.

The average age of artists in the Santa Fe Taos area (which out sells the New York gallery scene) is over 50. This holds true in the Mendocino area, Monterrey Carmel, Miami, Seattle…

Wake up. Art is an old person’s game. Always has been. Those kids in the big city are getting played and discarded.

]]> By: David http://karlzipser.com/2006/12/is-childrens-art-art.html/comment-page-1#comment-753 David Tue, 02 Jan 2007 16:25:35 +0000 http://karlzipser.com/2006/12/is-childrens-art-art.html#comment-753 Karl, I hope I'm wrong too. But I don't think so. Read some of the posts and comments on Ed Winkleman's site sometime, and you'll hear story after story about this. Art collecting has turned into speculation in a way that has totally changed the business. Karl, I hope I’m wrong too. But I don’t think so. Read some of the posts and comments on Ed Winkleman’s site sometime, and you’ll hear story after story about this. Art collecting has turned into speculation in a way that has totally changed the business.

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